UK Circumnav

[Sabre27Admin]

Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 : 10:57:41 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Topic
Dear All

At the risk of being a little immodest, I hereby anounce my intention to do a UK Circumnavigation. I reckon if I tell people about it, I'll have an incentive to get on and do it!

the blog is up and running ( http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com/ ), and plans are a foot. or maybe even afoot. I have an almost sea worthy bilge keeler, which I've been living on for the past 4 years. I intend to upgrade and improve a few bits on her, and set of the day after my current fixed-term contract ends.

This is the bit that may raise eyebrows a little - I'll leave 1st September (or maybe a bit earlier if the project comes together early). I'm allowing about three months, maybe a little longer, which would see us sailing into December. I don't think this is a major issue - I have a Taylors cabin heater which keeps things toasty inside, and am prepared to invest in some quality oilskins to keep things (relatively) toasty outside. We can pick the weather to some extent, and if we get caught out we all know Sabres are built like a brick o*t house, so the weak link is probably my limited experience of about 3k miles - but there's only one way to remedy that short coming!

I hope to share the experience with you, and hopefully glean some useful info from you all too! I'm sure many Sabres have completed this voyage, I know the Endeans did, so it would be great to hear from you.

Cheers

Toby (Sunfly, based in Cardiff)

Nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.
sabre27
178 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 : 11:30:29

Hi Toby,

I wish I could be joining you, but I fear there are ferocious beasts guarding that particular door at this time!

Which way around are you planning, if you've got that far? I look forward to your blog, which I have just dipped into, let's hope you've got that one out of the way!

Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.

Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 : 14:04:07 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Paul

the plan is clockwise. still thinking about whether to go around the Emerald Isle, and whether to go through the Caledonian Canal or not.

Time hopefully won't be a real constraint, so the waters of the UK are my oyster!

It's looking likely that the trip will happen in convoy with another S27 - Soloist of Leigh. She was bought about two years ago by my good friend Rob, who I have been persuading to join the association (the intent, but not the organisation, are there!)

While I'm on the subject, one of the ways I'm hoping to stretch my limited budget is by srounging or borrowing charts. I'm looking for friendly sailors who could donate/sell cheaply unwanted charts, or alternatively lend specific charts for certain sections of the voyage. I'm happy to make any updates to sweeten the deal! There must be thousands of forgotten charts at the back of cupboards, especailly at the time of year I'll be sailing!

If this idea looks like being sucessful, I'll produce a list of which charts I want and roughly when, and post it here.

Nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.

nickbd
United Kingdom
205 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 : 20:04:07 nickbd's nickbd's
Toby,

It sounds idyllic. No time constraint, eyes on the horizon, total freedom. I'd wager that most of the Sabre owners in the association bought their boats with this kind of adventure in mind. I wish I could join you.

I can, at least, join you in spirit, and if you can keep your blog up to date I'll find a way to embed it within the association website. Then you'll have the green eyes of the membership tracking your progress!

Good luck with the preparations.

==============
Nick B-D

1974 Fin Keel
Yanmar YSE 12

ken endean
United Kingdom
52 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2010 : 16:15:07
Toby,
I've been puzzling over how to respond to your posting, mainly because you propose to do the trip in autumn-winter. This could make it more of a project and possibly (?) less of a pleasure.

If you were going round in summer, I would suggest anticlockwise to take advantage of sea breeze veers on the south and east coasts. However, by September there won't be many sea breezes so I guess the main consideration will be where you are likely to get held up. An anticlockwise trip will find you up in Scotland with very short hours of daylight, but your last leg down the Irish Sea will be on partly sheltered water. A clockwise trip will give you Scottish scenery while you have enough daylight to enjoy it and should bring you back to the civilised south before winter closes in. However, you may have to fight westerlies all along the south coast and around Land's End. Of course, the actual weather might be tranquil in December but you can only plan for the most likely scenario.

Your twin-keeler will be ideal for the passage because you will be able to take advantage of many drying harbours, giving you twice as many options for overnight stops. Some drying harbours may suffer from late-season swell but the Sabre is tougher and more stable than most boats when asked to take the ground in uncivilised places. I recommend that you should take a LONG fender board for uncivilised quaysides. Also invest in a decent anchor - something that is happy to grapple with uncivilised seabeds, unlike a CQR.

Much of the trip could be done with current Imray charts. The bits that really need large-scale Admiralty charts are the rockier inlets, such as in western Scotland, but a lot depends on whether you intend to spend time exploring them. For crossing the Thames Estuary, make sure you have an up-to-date chart because the banks move frequently. It is definitely worth collecting all possible 'pilot book'-type information, particularly on minor harbours. The web can yield some useful details and even Google Earth views are surprisingly helpful for giving you the 'feel' of an unfamiliar place, although they may be some years' out of date (and some even omit recent bridges etc.) Several harbour authorities publish navigation info on the web but please note that 'holiday harbours' may lift their buoyage in the winter. A recent copy of Reeds Almanac will give you mobile phone numbers for harbourmasters in small places, who may not maintain a VHF watch in winter (or ever).

You state that you have only a limited sea-mileage under your belt. It would seem to be be a good idea to rehearse by making summer passages in less-than perfect weather, practising mooring at strange quaysides (plenty of them around South Wales / Bristol Channel) and anchoring overnight.

And that's exhausted my imagination!

Ken

Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 14:49:36 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Ken

many thanks for your response. I have fairly hefty Danforth which has held us in a pretty good blow before, plus a more sensible sized CQR. I think a smaller kedge would come in handy though. Hadn't thought of a fenderboard, I guess there will be occasions in a harbour when you don't dry out and want to use the wall, in which case the board comes in.

On the chart front, also some good ideas. I have the Bristol Channel Blue Book, which seems more informative (and cheaper!) than a lot of more 'comercial' pilots, there must be similar publications for other parts of the UK. I shall start scouring the web too.

I'm planning to do plenty of dress rehearsals this summer, especially under less than ideal conditions - although the one time I've been out in a fairly big swell I was more worried about the crew than the boat. Ther's certainly plenty of interesting places to try in my imediate vicinity.


I've also been doing a bit of research in to oilskins. I figure that these are going to quite important to comfort. I have a set of 'splash down' kit that I'll take as a spare/'cold but dry' set and/or a spare for occasiona extra crew, but my experience of these is that they haven't help their water prooficity. I'm in the process of dosing them with Nikwax products to see if that makes any odds. Anyway, I clearly need somehting more suitable for propper wet weather.

I've been looking at the fancy musto/helly/henri/Gill kit, and I think I could grit my teeth sufficiently to shell out for something 'good', but I'm concerned that they will go the same way as the cheap(ish) kit and will start taking on water in time. An alternative is Guy Cotten PVC fisherman style stuff which is obviously not as comfortable but unquestionably water proof.

Does the panel have any observations/advice on this front?

Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats

http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com

n/a
2 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 22:13:18
Hi Toby,
I made a circumnavigation of UK a few years ago and also Ireland a year or two later. In both cases I went anticlockwise.A check of autumn/winter wind pilot for Scotland will help decide which way. I went 'over the top'via Orkney. I still have charts and pilots etc and submitted articles to RS. If you would like any information, charts books etc you're welcome. I also published an article in RS on modifications I carried out to Bristol Sabre for offshore sailing.
Best of Luck.Tony.

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 22:15:46
If you are seriously going to do this in winter, you will basically be living in your foulies. I cannot stress highly enough that your kit will be the one thing that will keep you warm, dry, motivated abd sane. Just one small wave down your front will spell misery for that day...and that's assuming you can dry everything out at night. There's nothing worse than being cold and wet!

I plumped for some Musto MPXs recently (£400 suit) and they are absolutely great, the high collar gives great shelter and the hood is superb. My other half has Musto BR1s (£200 suit)...also very good, but with less handwarmer pockets, a slightly lower collar and not Gore-Tex (but still breathable) and she also rates them highly., and they are truly brilliant value.

Decent boots that don't make your feet sweat are also a must...fit is everything, and I bought more or less on fit alone, you'll be amazed how boots in the same size vary. Marine Super Store do some quite nice Quaysides for £100 which a friend has just bought and he likes them.

Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2010 : 14:50:09 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Tony - if you are reading this, I have emailed you - I never received your previous email.

Hi Iain

I think keeping warm and dry are going to be the major challenges.

My only concern about the Musto (or similar high end stuff) is how the breathable fabrics perform over time. Could you tell me, when it gets wet, does the water ball up and run straight of, or does it soak into the top layer (I understand it won't go through the goretex, but if the outer shell is wet I'd be carrying salty water below...)
My experience of such things is that the outer will shed water easily for maybe a few weeks, but will gradually loose this benefit. One would hope that when paying MPX price tags it would retain this level of water resistance for a long time.

Hence the comments on the Guy Cotten kit - it's not breathable, but it deffinetly doesn't let water in (through the fabric at least - as Iain rightly highlighted, there's still four big holes in any jacket...)

I'm teetering on the brink of ordering an MPX suit! I might get a guy cotten one as well, for a spare for me or occasional crew. decisions!

Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats

http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com

ken endean
United Kingdom
52 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2010 : 16:39:56
Toby,
Concerning anchors: both CQR and Danforth are easily disabled by weed. The CQR fluke initially lies on its side and a layer of weed or flat stones can prevent it getting its point into the bottom. The Danforth holds strongly when embedded but if the boat sheers and the anchor turns over, anything trapped between blades and shank will jam the 'scissors action', so that the blade cannot swing down. Our Commodore makes good use of a Danforth but I believe the best all-round performers are the rigid plough types with single points. We have found that a Delta is far better than a CQR. Current all-weather lifeboats carry a 'fisherman' and a Delta. The Spade and the Bugel / Rocna / Manson type, with a roll-over bar have performed even better in tests. However, a concave blade can cause problems in sticky bottoms and I feel that a roll-over bar might invite trouble in weed or boulders. In strange anchorages, maximum holding resistance in sand is less important than an anchor's willingness to grab hold of anything and keep hanging on.

Concerning waterproofs, in northern waters we have found that water is most likely to penetrate the fabric via horizontal surfaces - shoulders, knees and bum (when sitting on a wet bench). That's why we fitted slatted cockpit bench covers (slats close together, like teak decking but without the caulking, and a drainage gap below the slats). Chances are you won't be driving into gales with a square jaw and attitude to match, but will be slogging along in heavy rain and drizzle (think Scotland), in which case a souwester and a traditional copper's cape might be more effective than Goretex. For keeping warm, make sure you can fit a warm hat under your hood and buy some boots that have plenty of room for thick socks. Ski gloves might be better than sailing gloves.

Brrrr!
Ken

n/a
38 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2010 : 19:53:02
Hi Toby, stop teetering and fall in!

I have been wearing the same MPX for more years than I care to think about. Everything that Iain said is right! I sail in the winter with frost on the decks, warm and dry all the time, the chest high trousers (size has plenty of room inside for clothing) only come off when the anchor goes down.

Summer weather, they cannot be beaten for keeping the water out and your body and clothing dry. How all that moisture gets out I just don't understand, but it does!

Water in the fabric has never been a problem, just use common sense, it evaporates quickly. If I had to go back to the 'other types' I'd give up sailing.

Breathable boots with room for good socks. Mine are good, I can wear them all day just like shoes but should have been the next size up in the winter for thicker socks!!

I short, shell out and enjoy, but take your kit when you go shopping so you get the right size!

I'll e-mail you your Rattling Sabres, PDF, if you are at sea, but it will still be a fair size.


Paul Howard. Tech Officer S27OA

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2010 : 10:12:52
Toby

Yes, MPX does lose it's "pearling" effect over time, but this is probably just some superficial coating that they spray on at the factory and could no doubt be replaced with a spray of Fabsil or similar (but check with Musto first so you don't compromise breathability).

I do a lot of dinghy sailing and I have an MPX drysuit which I've had for about 3 years which I wade out waist deep in when launching, and go right under if it goes wrong! I have never had any problems with this lack of pearling compromising breathability or waterproofing.

In fact, traditional fabrics will just end up with that slighty damp salty sheen which never dries, and newer stuff actually tends to stay drier on the outside, but with a more visible white salt stain which easily sponges off.

Re boots, you are looking for a fit which is actually loose round the back of your ankle (so the boot fitting person at the boat show told me). This will feel a little odd ashore, but suddenly makes perfect sense afloat, as you need the flexibility to walk up and down steps and a sloping deck, and it just allows a little more articulation.

For kit on a budget, it's worth trying some of the outlet retail stores such as Musto in Bicester Village (I think they do mail order too) as they often have colours from a few years ago, or full-on ocean racing kit that is hard to shift, but you may be very, very glad of in the middle of winter in Scotland.

Good luck with it!

Steve
United Kingdom
13 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2010 : 08:33:30
Good luck with the preparation and the trip itself, I'll be following your blog avidly.

Not an owner myself yet, but I will be in a couple of years time after a house move etc.

Will you be open to visitors, (bearing gifts...), as you pass the Kent coast?

Steve

Andreou
United Kingdom
14 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 : 00:14:44
I am contemplating a round Eire trip, does anyone have any idea how long it might take, starting and finishing on the Clyde.
Which direction is most favourable?
Where are the favourably ports and anchorages to stay?
Can anyone reccommend any reading materials?

Go for MPX you'll be glad you did,Andy