Single-handed sailing

[Sabre27Admin]

RabT
United Kingdom
3 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2010 : 22:26:50
Hello,

I am considering a number of sailboats between 24-27’, including a Sabre 27’, and I wonder if you could share your experiences with regards to single-handed sailing.

In particular, I am interested to find out how much (ballpark figure) would cost to change the rigging so that all lines lead back to cockpit and if any one you have done this, what are the pros/cons and what’s the feeling in a Sabre.

More generally, in your experiences, which small to mid-size boats are more suited to single-handed sailing?

The other yachts in my list are Sadler 25, Jaguar 25, Jaguar 27, Albin Vega 27, Ruffian 28, Hunter 27 Horizon.
I am not looking to go fast or win any races, more keen on seaworthiness and ability to go out in most weather conditions.

I know the question is very general but any feedback will help me out.

Thanks
RabT
Edited by - RabT on 15/11/2010 22:31:00
NPMR
United Kingdom
59 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2010 : 23:03:38
The Sabre is an easy to manage 27' boat and are usually sailed short-handed (by a couple perhaps) but many times singlehanded.

With a sensible furling foresail and good self steering mechanism you will have no problem singlehanding a Sabre and the choice of whether to bring back the mainsail lines or not is purely personal. We choose not to as it is so easy for us. The cost will be minimal.

Have sailed a Jaguar 27 and it's a good boat. Suggest a bit more room in a Sabre but they are also a fine sea boat that will always get you home. In my humble opinion.

N Ross
HUZZAH

tokomaru111
United Kingdom
38 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2010 : 09:47:28
I have had a Sabre 27 for two seasons cruising too France, it was fitted with mainsail controls to the cockpit but I found it a complete waste of time, the friction in the lines was so great, it would need a gorilla to reef with any degree of success. I have now reverted to cow horns at the mast and cockpit lines to the leech, this is much easier reefing and very much easier shaking out a reef.

Ron Walke

jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2010 : 10:17:56
All my sailing is single handed and there is no operation on the boat that cannot be done by 1 person. I have no lines lead back to cockpit other than furling headsail and spinnaker downhaul . Reefing and foredeck work is easy.
Earlier this season I was caught out in a really good blow and had to heave to- the boat behaved beautifully and rode the seas so nicely that i made coffee in a cafetiere and waited it out. The sabre is a fine seaworthy boat and you will give up long before the boat will.
A tiller pilot and a spare one is essential.

Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2010 : 10:57:57 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I haven't actually sailed on my own but have more or less single handed a bit with someone else on board. As said lines led aft aren't essential and have down sides, but the point of my post was to say that it will probably set you back a bit unless you have a very well stocked bits box. you'll need one or more turning blocks for each line, probably a deck organiser with those pulley wheels on a vertical axis, you'll need to mount one or more winches on the coach roof (probably moved from the mast) , and a clutch or jammmer for each line... you could probably collect the bits from fleabay and boat jumbles for, if you do well, a ton, but to buy that lot new you're suddenly into serious bucks, as well as the work involved. The other point would be that second hand and/or cheap gear will be more prone to the friction already mentioned.

I sailed in company with Simon Hayes on his sabre earlier this year, and he single handed quite easily in the restricted space of the Menai Straights, with nothing led aft, small non self tailing winches, and hank on head sails - it must be said that he's clearly very skilled but it made me re think the stuff I've read about setting up for single handing.

Whatever you go for, and the sabre comes recommended, I'd suggest seeing how you go for a season or so before to the effort and expense.

Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats

http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com

sabre27
178 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2010 : 17:11:09
I have sailed my twin keeled Sabre Corsair single handed since we bought her in 1980. I have a moderate size roller foresail which will reef down to upwind force 6. after which the storm jib is deployed. The fully battened, loose footed main has 3 spectacled reefs, the boom is fitted with 2 internal reefing lines which I work from the mast (gets me out of the cockpit for a change). For the third reef, rarely used, I tie-in the leach in the traditional way and when things get to that stage the foresail is rolled away tight and storm jib hoisted on my temporary inner forestay. Sails beautifully!

Like Jerryo I have two reliable auto pilots. Important when you’ve got a lot of open sea miles ahead.

As for the boat, she is good looking, strong, obedient and has everything I need. Why would I want anything else?

AGM this coming weekend, then I’m off to sea, probably single handed unless Rory is free for a couple of days or so!


Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.

RabT
United Kingdom
3 Posts

Posted - 17/11/2010 : 22:12:56
Thanks very much to everyone for your replies, I appreciate the level of detail provided.

I have seen over a dozen boats in the last 3 months and I am still looking, I am quite wary of making a mistake as I am a total novice (CC and doing DS just now). I am taking it easy but I hope to be in the water by mid February next year at the latest.


As a matter of curiosity, I wonder if you could share what is the minimum wind speed where there is no option but to start the engine and what is the maximum wind you have been out on your own. I know this is also quite general and that we are ignoring tides, etc but any feedback will help me out. Apologies for the non-stop questions but I am in information gathering mode, asking similar questions to owners of other boats so I appreciate your help and honesty.

jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2010 : 10:24:52
I have had 3 knots boat speed under mainsail and cruising chute with just a zepher of wind.
Max wind a steady 35 knots gusting well over 40. I hove to during this as mentioned in previous post. Incidentally- during this I had only 1 wave break over the top of the dodgers.

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 20/11/2010 : 00:13:10
I've actually been slowly getting the bits together to lead everything back. I do agree, you probably don't need it, but whether it's the dinghy racer in me trying to "pimp" the boat a bit, or the fact that regardless of how seaworthy the boat is (and that's VERY!) big breeze, short solent chop and a smallish boat are always going to make the cockpit a safer option than the mast.

My new sprayhood was made with cutouts, eBay came up with some Spinlock deck organisers (very cheap indeed), some Lewmar 6 single speed winches (£80 pair)and some 316 grade stainless bar for me to mount the turning blocks at the mast base. I've got some old jammers, but a mate has some clutches going cheap. I will certainly need a new main halyard and topping lift, however I am hoping that the old ones, whilst too short to come back in their current use, will be OK for pole uphaul and reefing lines with a bit of luck. That just leaves the turning blocks, and the headlining was coming out anyway for replacement.

I still reckon it will be a few hundred quid but in my mind worth it. Work starts next weekend, I can take pics if you are interested.

tokomaru111
United Kingdom
38 Posts

Posted - 20/11/2010 : 05:40:03
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I would suggest you rig separate luff and leech lines, I found that the friction with single line reefing makes it impossible to shake out a reef without going to the mast. I think you will find that you will need thirty or so metres of reefing line with single line reefing, all that has to be pulled through the turning blocks every time time you reef or shake a reef out.

Ron Walke

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 24/11/2010 : 09:35:03
Ron

Thanks for the tip, I think you are right. If I go single line, all the new winches have to do (and they are pretty small!) is overcome the friction between the gooseneck (where the reefing lines currently make off on a simple horn cleat) and the clutches...easy peasy. You're right, additional systems is more money, more string, more friction, and more complication when it jams!

Besides, Summer Girl's boom is quite thin, and was originally a roller/claw item before being converted to slab reefing. I'd come to the conclusion that modifying it was going to be too much of a pain, and I'd either need to look at external rigging, meaning the piggy back blocks would be rattling around all the time, or a second hand boom.

You are right...far simpler to have a simple line coming back to a cheapo horn cleat or similar in the cockpit.

RabT
United Kingdom
3 Posts

Posted - 30/11/2010 : 00:27:11
Just wanted to thank everyone for their answers and advice. Keeping a forum like this active is a great source of information and guidance, and a good resource for novices like me.

I still have not made my mind up, but I am joining he local sailing club in order to get more experience.

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 30/11/2010 : 19:47:30
Well, I certainly picked a weekend to spend 3 days on board! Brrrr!

Apart from actually threading the string, it's all done. It was a pretty major job, and quite tricky on your own. Getting the headlining out was a pain...I will be replacing it at some stage , but for now I've put it back where it was...it looks OK but you can certainly see I have peeled back each corner of the headlining!

Mounting the deck organisers was a pain...I did the stbd first and cleverly drilled the holes right above a wooden strengthening batten in the deckhead, which made putting the nuts and penny washers on a real pain. Original plan was for wooden backing pieces, but as the load is only in the horizontal plane I did not bother. Stbd one is at 90 degrees to the centreline, port is at an angle to make sure that I could run 4 lines down the narrower side of the hatch.

There are backing pieces epoxied in place under all the other hardware...Lewmar 6 winches and a number of jammers/clutches. On the port side there are 2 x spinlock old style double jammers, which will each hold the clew and tack reefing lines for reef 1 & 2. Not quite enough room to get a full turn of the winch handle with the sprayhood up due to the offset hatch though! Stbd side there is, and there's a triple jammer looking after kicker, topping lift and pole up. A proper double clutch looks after main and kite halyards, and if I do lead the pole downhaul back, it will go from a padeye mounted behind the samson post (for a better angle) and probably come back along the side deck to a jammer on the cockpit coaming.

Mast base turning blocks are mounted on a piece of 316 grade 5x25mm stainless bar each side of the tabernacle. This has a 15mm hole drilled at it's mid point to allow it to sit on the lower mast pivot bolt, and is held 5mm away from the tabernacle by a square washer (made out of the same bar) in the middle, and some M8 bolts at either end, spaced out by 5x 1mm washers. So the bar has a small gap between it's inner edge and the tabernacle, leaving enough room to get a shackle in the gap. Broke no end of drills and used every piece of anglo saxon going until the rather excellent YouBoat chandlery in Gosport sold me some superb Bosch drills and advised using diesel oil as a cutting fluid. I drilled 2 8mm holes in about 10 mimutes one one 5mm and one 8mm bit, rather than breaking almost every other bit over the course of a couple of hours whilst laboriously going up 1mm at a time, which is how the previous day had gone!

I've got a new main halyard and topping lift and kite halyard (all existing ones were about a metre too short) although the kite halyard was a freebie. Some months ago I attended a talk/demo by English Braids, and turns out the rep used to own a Sabre. He helped me make a splice in a very long piece of suitable string, and said "keep it". Result! The old halyards will then get shortened and used as reefing lines/kicker etc.

Clew reefing lines will go around cheek blocks at the inboard end of the boom and go straight down to a double block on the kicker attachment, and tack lines will go down to blocks on the port "tabernacle bar".

I think it should all work...leads all look good and nothing seems to rub. Only concern is the size/power of the ickle Lewmar 6 winches...however as it was all very easy at the mast base, all they have to overcome is any friction in the new system, which should be fine. Not sure I'd want to be hanging off one though...I have a feeling you'd pass a small winch and a piece of coachroof at spreader height...them going up and me going down!

Pics to follow...sorry, but it was just far, far too cold!

Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2011 : 20:57:28
Project all finished. Yes, as with anything like this it cost a lot more than I'd budgeted for, but I really do think it's worth it for ease of use.

I went for separate two line reefing due to the thin boom, with the clew lines routed under a couple of saddles to stop everything flapping about. I have to say the whole lot is remarkably friction free...it might be because it's new rope running through new blocks (plain bearing) but sat head to wind on the pontoon yesterday one person could raise and reef the main without needing to even take a turn around the winches...and of course drop it into the stack pack when done. If the winches give it the extra grunt required to work in a stiff breeze then that is mission accomplised in my book!

I do have some pictures if anyone is interested.