Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

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samphire2014
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by samphire2014 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:18 am

Hello,

The time has come to gut the headlining and side lining in the main saloon.

I would really like to get my hands on some pictures of what it might look like after stripping out. I am particularly interested in any information about areas that will accept screw fixings.

The coach roof appears straight forward as the ribs allow for easy fixing. However, the side panels are a different matter, the areas around, above and below the windows look to be challenging.

Has anybody stripped out the panels on either side of the companion way and hatch, a view of how these are mounted would be equally welcome.

As always with the forum, pictures, hot tips and advice would be most welcome.

Thanks
Chris

ken endean
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 am

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by ken endean » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:09 pm

I don't know if this helps, but I am attaching a copy of part of an old Marcon drawing, showing curved plywood battens on the inside of the coach roof. You will probably find that you have two big internal panels of liner material on a hardboard backing, and that they are screwed to these battens. Those panels are so large as to cause a problem if you ever need to get behind them, for access to wiring or fixings, so when I replaced the linings I divided the area into 8 separate panels of 4mm ply. They are retained by varnished wood strips and those strips are screwed to the curved battens.
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On the sides of the coachroof, the soft linings were replaced but without relying on adhesive, which will inevitably droop sooner or later. All the edges are clamped under new timber battens (some screwed to the under-deck stiffeners) or under hardwood strips at the edge of the roof. Also we have clamping alloy strips around the windows but your Sabre may have glassed-on battens behind the curtain tracks that could serve to support clamping details. The other attached pic illustrates some of these points.
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On the aft bulkhead, I removed the old hardboard panels and bolted on some 9mm-thick ply panels, which are meaty enough to take screw fixings from various instruments that are mounted there, which may be changed from time to time. Elsewhere we introduced thin ply panels at the sloping steps in the coachroof. These were screwed to timber battens that we epoxied to the GRP.

samphire2014
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by samphire2014 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:55 am

Thanks Ken. I was fortunate enough to get to Samphire yesterday, beating the Tier 4 lockdown by 48 hours. I took a lot of the headlining down and saw the horrors below. Was condensation a big issue for your before you replaced the lining?

ken endean
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 am

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by ken endean » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:05 pm

Apart from some foam under the flexible (soft) linings in a few places, our boat is essentially uninsulated, so is bound to experience condensation in cold conditions. However, we don't sail in winter, so actual droplets of condensation are rare (except on the windows) but mould tends to collect after the end of each season. We have concentrated on fitting thin, smooth linings that can be washed easily. Each spring, after the winter lay-up, I find thin patches of dusty mould in various places, and therefore go over every internal square inch with warm water and detergent, hopefully finishing with a pristine interior. I can also remove some of the lining panels to check and clean behind them.

If I may make one comment on your Sabre, the photos in the gallery seem to show a carpet-type lining in many places. That was briefly fashionable and I suspected that it might cause trouble, especially if someone was 'ill' on it, but I don't know if my suspicions were justified or if your boat's 'horrors' lie elsewhere.

jezza
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by jezza » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:47 am

Ken: I am doing similar on Sea Spear (you will remember her from HSSC when I co-owned her with Bill Padgham). How have you attached the strips at the edge of the roof above the windows, that carry the curtain tracks, to the GRP? I suppose you could use screws through the moulding from outside into the wood, but would rather not.
Jerry Jones
Sea Spear
Weston-super-Mare

ken endean
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 am

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by ken endean » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:06 pm

Hi Jerry. My memory is a bit hazy on that detail but I seem to recall there were longitudinal backing timbers, possibly glassed inside each edge of the coach roof. They may be the strips that are shown on the drawing with curved outer edges. Photo 1, below, shows the after part of the headlining and Photo 2 is a blow up of the corner. The curtain track is fastened to a flat hardwood strip which is itself screwed to the backing timber. A second, narrower hardwood trim, to the right of the curtain track, is screwed to the flat hardwood strip and overlaps the edge of the white ply panel. The flat hardwood strip also traps the upper/inboard edge of the foam-backed vinyl material that lines the side of the coach roof. In Photo 3 the lower part of that vinyl passes over the top of the locker panel and is clamped to the longitudinal under-deck stiffener by another hardwood trim. In other words, the vinyl does not relay on adhesive and is unlikely to ever droop. Outboard of the under-deck stiffener, the deck and hull side is painted white.

One word of caution: the Sabre's internal coach roof details were changed at least once and yours may be different from ours. Back in about 1990, when Robin Bridger was planning to buy Sea Spear, he and I inspected her at Swansea and I remember some fairly fancy bits of internal joinery, so I don't know how much she may have varied from the standard fit-out.
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jezza
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by jezza » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:49 pm

Thanks. I have a feeling that my athwartships members stop at the outer end of the raised section of the moulding, and the vinyl follows the curve up to and just into the raised area. I think I shall need to have a good look once the panels are down, and consider bonding some outboard longitudinal strips in. Luckily, the vinyl I fitted some years ago when we replaced the windows appears to clean up OK and I can re-glue it where needed, but trapping it under a hardwood strip is an excellent plan.
Jerry Jones
Sea Spear
Weston-super-Mare

samphire2014
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by samphire2014 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:10 am

1) The comments made by Ken regarding the Carpet are correct. The glue has failed on mine so I have decided it best to remove all of it, once I can get back to the boat.
2) The Blueprint needs to be approached with caution as my boat has an additional stiffener in the coach house roof, which renders some of the dimensions obsolete. (Measure twice cut once :) methinks )
3)For me, insulation is a must and I am currently focusing on this as the first phase of the project

ken endean
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 am

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by ken endean » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:03 pm

Jerry,
If your transverse battens are not full width, it seems possible that Sea Spear has an early version of the coach roof construction - as described by Tony Mynett in the Members' Handbook under 'Lining - Relining a Sabre saloon'. That article also describes ways of dealing with the various curved surfaces.

jezza
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Headlining and side panels for Mark 2 on Samphire

Post by jezza » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:37 pm

Thanks Ken, I'll have a look.

later . . .

Found it. I wonder what he used where he has mentioned "gutter". I suppose ordinary half round guttering might do the job. It certanly describes my construction and has given me some good ideas. Sea Spear actually had some wooden window surrounds like Tony describes in the handbook when we bought her, which I removed when we replaced the windows and lined with vinyl.
Jerry Jones
Sea Spear
Weston-super-Mare

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