Cockpit hatch
Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:28 pm
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 06:32:16
The hatch in the cockpit which gives access to the rear of the engine, stern gland etc is screwed down with way too many s/steel self tappers and is a pain in the you know where to open up. Has anyone replaced this hatch with something else more user friendly?
Thanks
Jerry
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 09:12:32
Hi Jerry,
Was of the same opinion. I have boxed in the inside cavity under the hatch, put heavy duty sealing tape around the edge of both surfaces, cockpit floor and hatch, put a couple of hinges and spring latches on and use it to keep my fenders etc in when sailing. Works a treat.
Rgds
Tony J
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 18:46:46
Hi Tony,
I need access to this area for the stern gland, diesel filter and fuel tank, gear box oil, anode bolts etc so am trying to work out the best solution for an easy hatch opening which is as flush as possible to allow the cockpit grating to sit on top of it. Having to remove 14 screws each time is just not plain sailing.
Jerry
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 19:19:29
Hi
I'm in exactly the same situation - every year I have to insert my entire body through this hole in order to do battle with the impeller cover screws - it drives me nuts. + I'd love to be able to store fenders down there with easy access. Looking forward to some bright ideas!!
Good sailing - Peter
Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 22:04:49
Summer Girl has a Lewmar hatch there and it works a treat. The cockpit grating was replaced with that GRP stuff that you find on pontoons, it's OK, but was only done as the teak was rotten and I had some of this stuff lying about. But it would be very easy to put deeper feet on your teak grating to clear the hatch, it's pretty flush anyway.
Access to the back of the engine is superb, just jump in and sit down, and light is improved too going in from the companionway. I'd not thought about stowing fenders down there, and to be honest I probably would not as the prospect of a rope getting caught around the prop shaft at speed would be scary, however I do want to investigate Land-Rover style jerry can racks on each side of the propshaft to get my spare fresh water and diesel closer to the centreline.
I don't have pics I'm afraid but I can take some.
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 22:34:32
Pix would be excellent Iain - Peter
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 22/06/2011 : 08:11:26
Re my hatch modification.
Interior boxed in with removable boards so as to easily enable access to rear of engine and drive shaft and filters etc.
Hatch has bolted on teak strips to line up with rest of cockpit boards, all lined up and raised accordingly to be flush horizontally.
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 22/06/2011 : 20:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by Tony
Re my hatch modification.
Interior boxed in with removable boards so as to easily enable access to rear of engine and drive shaft and filters etc.
Hatch has bolted on teak strips to line up with rest of cockpit boards, all lined up and raised accordingly to be flush horizontally.
Tony your arrangement sound interesting. Would you consider posting a few photos?
Hopefully
Jerry
keith
United Kingdom
118 Posts
Posted - 23/06/2011 : 08:24:07
A thought, some Sadlers (the 29) had a moulded GRP tub that sits in the hole in the cockpit floor with a hatch above. I am sure something smaller could be made to fit the Sabre.
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 23/06/2011 : 14:00:40
Yes - so what are you waiting for
Pete
Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 25/06/2011 : 11:42:01 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I came up with what I think is a reasonably neat solution;
Piece of ply about 30 mm bigger fore and aft and 50-60mm bigger athwarth ships than the hole (N.b. I found mine's not square). Battens across underside for strength which sit snugly in hole.
4 off 8mm bolts through deck from under, to produce 4 studs sticking out near edge of hole. 4 holes drilled through ply to fit the entire nut through. 4 s/s plates amout 60-70 mm square with 8 mm holes (actually had to make them 9mm to allow for slightly wonky bolts) in centre, plus small holes in corners to screw plates to ply over the holes that sit over the nuts.
whole lot sheathed with tissue CSM and epoxy and painted.
neoprene tape on hatch, drops over hole and wing nuts hold it in and compress the seal. Robert's your fathers brother. the ply is very low profile but the wing nuts obviously stick up a bit, but as has been said, raise the duck boards a bit, or maybe rout/drill some recesses to suit. On mine, by luck rather than judgement, they line up with the gaps between the slats.
I have built a battery box in this space, seems the ideal spot - central, fairly low, near the engine... need to make sure you can still access stern gland though.
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 26/06/2011 : 18:42:42
Hi Sunfly
With your solution in mind I looked at the hatch today and think its a really good idea. One question for you. Is the rubber seal you used around the outer and bottom edge of the hatch or just on the flat bottom
edge? I ask as my hatch is fibre glass with a curved edge and rubber seal glued inside. I think I would be a better seal with a C section rubber seal glued on around the curved edge and then bolted in the way you describe.
Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 27/06/2011 : 10:19:57 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Jerry
It's common or garden neoprene tape, just around the undeside of the edge of the hatch.
One important thing I didn't make clear is that the extra width of the hatch athwartships was to allow the seal to pass inside of the bolts and holes, so the holes leak onto the cockpit sole rather than into the engine bay, if that makes sense.
you could achieve the same effect by using bars that go right across the hatch, otherwise you'll have to come up with a way of sealing the bolt holes to get a really water tight hatch - maybe some washers made out of bicycle inner tube?
If you can get a deent rubber section to use as a seal that would probably last longer, the neoprene tape seems to loose its spring after a few seasons. Neoprene excellent for taking up less than precise craftsmanship though.
by the by, I made a whole new hatch because a previous encumbant had mounted the manual bilge pump in it, leaving a large hole when I relocated it, but it was good to improve the seal and structure (new one is very very strong) at the same time.
I have some photos somewhere, I'll try to dig them out.
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
keith
United Kingdom
118 Posts
Posted - 27/06/2011 : 23:25:35
I just bought some expanded rubber hatch seal from this lot, excellent service, http://www.flowseal.co.uk/newpages/expa ... _strip.htm
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 05:40:52
Keith, you genius- reading my mind from so far away. How did you do that? Thanks for posting the contact. I will call them today.
Cheers
Jerry
ianfr
United Kingdom
104 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 09:29:43
Nic Kitchen has a hatch fitted to Erbas which looks like its in the middle of the normal one. Its quick release and he stores fenders in the cavity. You can email him directly, as he hasn't managed to get on the forum yet. Details in the members list
I have requested pictures from him, and if he gets them to me I will post them or get them to the webmaster.
Regards
Ian
Kind Regards
Ian
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 09:35:11
How do I attach pictures!!??
rory7520
United Kingdom
58 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 11:29:12
Have I missed the pictures or have they not yet been posted?
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 29/06/2011 : 06:36:08
I have wondered about photos being absent from this forum so went searching and found this:
For security reasons, you may not attach files to any posts. However, you may cut and paste text into your post.
There will be a reason for this although I think it is a shame as Sabre owners cannot easily share information in this way.
Perhaps I am suffering a senior moment here and there is a way around this within the forum pages?
Moderator?
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 29/06/2011 : 20:08:48
You can post photos in the Owners' Gallery, but I see you have to submit them to the Webmeister to get them in there.
Happy Days
Pete
ianfr
United Kingdom
104 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 17:54:45
I have uploaded pictures supplied by Nic Kitchen of the hatch on Erbas, These are full size which you could download if you want.
http://picasaweb.google.com/iankfrench/Erbas
Hope you find them useful.
Ian
Kind Regards
Ian
Edited by - ianfr on 16/01/2012 16:59:51
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 18:06:37
Hi Tony,
As always, Keith is dead right. Getting the windows out without damage is all. An all steel table knife is a great tool for working around the frame.
Again, Butyl Rubber, Arbomast BR - http://www.arbo.co.uk/product.asp still sold in good chandlers, is the gear for this and all deck fittings you may have to remove some time in the future.
Pictures. See the instructions in 'How To Use The Sabre 27 Forum' on the Forum Home Page.
bcfred
Canada
4 Posts
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 00:30:15
As I approach launch, the cockpit hatch has occupied my (alleged) mind. Here's a combination of two ideas from two different boats.
Make a wide "clamp" for the underneath aft edge of the hatch, like the Sabre cockpit seat hatches, such that it will compress a gasket round the perimeter of the hatch if the forward edge of the hatch is pushed (or in this case pulled) down.
Mount a fairlead or turning block under the deck (or maybe two) forward of the hatch. mount a couple of pad eyes on the bottom side of the hatch.
Run a shock cord over the fairlead led forward to somewhere accessible from the forward engine access. Hook on the hatch end of this line goes through the pad eye on the underside of hatch.
To secure the hatch, hook the aft edge, hook the line into pad eyes forward, open engine access, pull the shock cord tight, secure to a cleat (oops, forgot to mention you need to install said cleat)
Two line would be twice as many as one.
Fred
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 06:32:16
The hatch in the cockpit which gives access to the rear of the engine, stern gland etc is screwed down with way too many s/steel self tappers and is a pain in the you know where to open up. Has anyone replaced this hatch with something else more user friendly?
Thanks
Jerry
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 09:12:32
Hi Jerry,
Was of the same opinion. I have boxed in the inside cavity under the hatch, put heavy duty sealing tape around the edge of both surfaces, cockpit floor and hatch, put a couple of hinges and spring latches on and use it to keep my fenders etc in when sailing. Works a treat.
Rgds
Tony J
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 18:46:46
Hi Tony,
I need access to this area for the stern gland, diesel filter and fuel tank, gear box oil, anode bolts etc so am trying to work out the best solution for an easy hatch opening which is as flush as possible to allow the cockpit grating to sit on top of it. Having to remove 14 screws each time is just not plain sailing.
Jerry
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 19:19:29
Hi
I'm in exactly the same situation - every year I have to insert my entire body through this hole in order to do battle with the impeller cover screws - it drives me nuts. + I'd love to be able to store fenders down there with easy access. Looking forward to some bright ideas!!
Good sailing - Peter
Iain C
United Kingdom
181 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 22:04:49
Summer Girl has a Lewmar hatch there and it works a treat. The cockpit grating was replaced with that GRP stuff that you find on pontoons, it's OK, but was only done as the teak was rotten and I had some of this stuff lying about. But it would be very easy to put deeper feet on your teak grating to clear the hatch, it's pretty flush anyway.
Access to the back of the engine is superb, just jump in and sit down, and light is improved too going in from the companionway. I'd not thought about stowing fenders down there, and to be honest I probably would not as the prospect of a rope getting caught around the prop shaft at speed would be scary, however I do want to investigate Land-Rover style jerry can racks on each side of the propshaft to get my spare fresh water and diesel closer to the centreline.
I don't have pics I'm afraid but I can take some.
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 21/06/2011 : 22:34:32
Pix would be excellent Iain - Peter
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 22/06/2011 : 08:11:26
Re my hatch modification.
Interior boxed in with removable boards so as to easily enable access to rear of engine and drive shaft and filters etc.
Hatch has bolted on teak strips to line up with rest of cockpit boards, all lined up and raised accordingly to be flush horizontally.
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 22/06/2011 : 20:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by Tony
Re my hatch modification.
Interior boxed in with removable boards so as to easily enable access to rear of engine and drive shaft and filters etc.
Hatch has bolted on teak strips to line up with rest of cockpit boards, all lined up and raised accordingly to be flush horizontally.
Tony your arrangement sound interesting. Would you consider posting a few photos?
Hopefully
Jerry
keith
United Kingdom
118 Posts
Posted - 23/06/2011 : 08:24:07
A thought, some Sadlers (the 29) had a moulded GRP tub that sits in the hole in the cockpit floor with a hatch above. I am sure something smaller could be made to fit the Sabre.
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 23/06/2011 : 14:00:40
Yes - so what are you waiting for
Pete
Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 25/06/2011 : 11:42:01 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I came up with what I think is a reasonably neat solution;
Piece of ply about 30 mm bigger fore and aft and 50-60mm bigger athwarth ships than the hole (N.b. I found mine's not square). Battens across underside for strength which sit snugly in hole.
4 off 8mm bolts through deck from under, to produce 4 studs sticking out near edge of hole. 4 holes drilled through ply to fit the entire nut through. 4 s/s plates amout 60-70 mm square with 8 mm holes (actually had to make them 9mm to allow for slightly wonky bolts) in centre, plus small holes in corners to screw plates to ply over the holes that sit over the nuts.
whole lot sheathed with tissue CSM and epoxy and painted.
neoprene tape on hatch, drops over hole and wing nuts hold it in and compress the seal. Robert's your fathers brother. the ply is very low profile but the wing nuts obviously stick up a bit, but as has been said, raise the duck boards a bit, or maybe rout/drill some recesses to suit. On mine, by luck rather than judgement, they line up with the gaps between the slats.
I have built a battery box in this space, seems the ideal spot - central, fairly low, near the engine... need to make sure you can still access stern gland though.
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 26/06/2011 : 18:42:42
Hi Sunfly
With your solution in mind I looked at the hatch today and think its a really good idea. One question for you. Is the rubber seal you used around the outer and bottom edge of the hatch or just on the flat bottom
edge? I ask as my hatch is fibre glass with a curved edge and rubber seal glued inside. I think I would be a better seal with a C section rubber seal glued on around the curved edge and then bolted in the way you describe.
Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 27/06/2011 : 10:19:57 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Jerry
It's common or garden neoprene tape, just around the undeside of the edge of the hatch.
One important thing I didn't make clear is that the extra width of the hatch athwartships was to allow the seal to pass inside of the bolts and holes, so the holes leak onto the cockpit sole rather than into the engine bay, if that makes sense.
you could achieve the same effect by using bars that go right across the hatch, otherwise you'll have to come up with a way of sealing the bolt holes to get a really water tight hatch - maybe some washers made out of bicycle inner tube?
If you can get a deent rubber section to use as a seal that would probably last longer, the neoprene tape seems to loose its spring after a few seasons. Neoprene excellent for taking up less than precise craftsmanship though.
by the by, I made a whole new hatch because a previous encumbant had mounted the manual bilge pump in it, leaving a large hole when I relocated it, but it was good to improve the seal and structure (new one is very very strong) at the same time.
I have some photos somewhere, I'll try to dig them out.
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
keith
United Kingdom
118 Posts
Posted - 27/06/2011 : 23:25:35
I just bought some expanded rubber hatch seal from this lot, excellent service, http://www.flowseal.co.uk/newpages/expa ... _strip.htm
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 05:40:52
Keith, you genius- reading my mind from so far away. How did you do that? Thanks for posting the contact. I will call them today.
Cheers
Jerry
ianfr
United Kingdom
104 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 09:29:43
Nic Kitchen has a hatch fitted to Erbas which looks like its in the middle of the normal one. Its quick release and he stores fenders in the cavity. You can email him directly, as he hasn't managed to get on the forum yet. Details in the members list
I have requested pictures from him, and if he gets them to me I will post them or get them to the webmaster.
Regards
Ian
Kind Regards
Ian
Tony
56 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 09:35:11
How do I attach pictures!!??
rory7520
United Kingdom
58 Posts
Posted - 28/06/2011 : 11:29:12
Have I missed the pictures or have they not yet been posted?
jerryo
Ireland
70 Posts
Posted - 29/06/2011 : 06:36:08
I have wondered about photos being absent from this forum so went searching and found this:
For security reasons, you may not attach files to any posts. However, you may cut and paste text into your post.
There will be a reason for this although I think it is a shame as Sabre owners cannot easily share information in this way.
Perhaps I am suffering a senior moment here and there is a way around this within the forum pages?
Moderator?
Peter OD
United Kingdom
50 Posts
Posted - 29/06/2011 : 20:08:48
You can post photos in the Owners' Gallery, but I see you have to submit them to the Webmeister to get them in there.
Happy Days
Pete
ianfr
United Kingdom
104 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 17:54:45
I have uploaded pictures supplied by Nic Kitchen of the hatch on Erbas, These are full size which you could download if you want.
http://picasaweb.google.com/iankfrench/Erbas
Hope you find them useful.
Ian
Kind Regards
Ian
Edited by - ianfr on 16/01/2012 16:59:51
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 18:06:37
Hi Tony,
As always, Keith is dead right. Getting the windows out without damage is all. An all steel table knife is a great tool for working around the frame.
Again, Butyl Rubber, Arbomast BR - http://www.arbo.co.uk/product.asp still sold in good chandlers, is the gear for this and all deck fittings you may have to remove some time in the future.
Pictures. See the instructions in 'How To Use The Sabre 27 Forum' on the Forum Home Page.
bcfred
Canada
4 Posts
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 00:30:15
As I approach launch, the cockpit hatch has occupied my (alleged) mind. Here's a combination of two ideas from two different boats.
Make a wide "clamp" for the underneath aft edge of the hatch, like the Sabre cockpit seat hatches, such that it will compress a gasket round the perimeter of the hatch if the forward edge of the hatch is pushed (or in this case pulled) down.
Mount a fairlead or turning block under the deck (or maybe two) forward of the hatch. mount a couple of pad eyes on the bottom side of the hatch.
Run a shock cord over the fairlead led forward to somewhere accessible from the forward engine access. Hook on the hatch end of this line goes through the pad eye on the underside of hatch.
To secure the hatch, hook the aft edge, hook the line into pad eyes forward, open engine access, pull the shock cord tight, secure to a cleat (oops, forgot to mention you need to install said cleat)
Two line would be twice as many as one.
Fred