Storm Jibs
Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:30 pm
Sunfly
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 14:02:41 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Topic
Hi everyone
I'm in the process of adding an inner forestay from which to fly a storm jib. I've read the hand book article and it had been most helpful, but I have a few questions still unanswered.
1. The handbook article suggests adding a cable reinforcement in the forepeak between deckhead (under the deck terminal) and the stem. What are the panel's views on simply reinforcing the deck, and not including the below deck stay extension? I was considering glassing in an extra batten or two, about 34-40 mm in section, and possibly then bridging two battens with grp to form a sort of box section. clearly it would need a filler block in the centre to stop crushing.
2. What are the opinions on the position of the deck fitting? obviously nearer the stem is stronger as the deck is narrower, and it struck me that immediately in front of the coach roof would be inherently strong. Balanced against this is the optimal position in terms of flying the storm jib...
3. This is to some extent dependent on 2. (or vice-versa) - The Handbook suggests 80 square feet (7.4 m sq) as a size for storm jib (in the list of sails near front). this seems a bit on the big side to me - has anyone any experience of using a storm jib on a sabre, how it performed and what size it is?
thanks in advance...
Toby
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 28/11/2012 : 22:19:14 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Toby
Did you get your inner stay installed? I'm thinking of doing the same and wondered how you did it?
Peter
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 14:48:22
Hi Peter,
The best size for a Storm Jib, F7-F8 is 60 sq ft. No more. I have one and have used it in these conditions. Not for the faint hearted! But if you have ‘roller reefing’ how are you going to deploy it?
The biggest problem is ‘From where on the mast are you going to hang it? I had a custom made, seriously strong, stainless fitting riveted to the front and sides of the mast. It cost a fortune as did the rest of the kit!
This inner forestay, stows permanently, via a 3:1 tackle, down to a 'U' bolt on the starboard side-deck. When required, a ‘screw-down tensioner with a Pelican Hook’ is fitted to the stay which is taken to a 'U' bolt mounted through the reinforced foredeck just in front of the hawse-pipe. This can just be seen on Corsairs pictures in the Owners Gallery.
The system works very well, but takes quite a time to set up. It cost a fortune to do it! Give consideration to one of the 'Wrap around the rolled up genoa' systems. Better still, keep out of gale force winds.
Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.
I sailed close hauled for 20 miles in a F8-7 with this sail and a third reef in the main once. I would not do that again, except to save my life!
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 21:12:16 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Paul
Sorry for taking so long to reply but I forgot to subscribe to the topic.
I have a Swift 18 to which I've added a removeable "inner stay" from the back of the stem fitting. This gives just enough clearance for a working jib with the genoa rolled. This means no extra reinforcement as there's no extra load at deck level. I was considering doing this for the Sabre's storm jib. Although it wouldn't be as balanced as set further back on the deck it's far easier and cheaper to fit.
We're planning to cross Biscay so I guess a storm jib is a must just in case.
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 20/01/2013 : 20:54:22
Hi Peter,
A Sabre weighs 3.5 tons, all forces are large!
The extra stay. I see few engineering problems using the stem-head fitting to anchor the stay, but the sail will be very close to the rolled genoa. The biggest problem is at the top end. Any ‘stay’ must be very strongly fixed. How and from where on the mast? There is no room at the masthead. The stay needs to be fitted between 300mm and 400 mm down the mast to keep it well clear of the genoa.
The halyard for hoisting the storm sail. Do you have a roller reefing foresail? If so, you cannot use this halyard for the storm-sail, without removing the sail, in strong to gale winds? You cannot use the spinnaker halyard, it will chafe against the rolled Genoa.
That leaves the main halyard, this is the wrong side of the mast. I solved this problem by fitting a 6mm, S/S plate to the top of the mast, ‘offset port 25degrees’ and braced down 300mm onto the mast front. My spinnaker halyard now hangs off this and is used often with a C-Chute. Used once for my storm sail, which was a deliberate ‘shake down’ in a 6-8 gale to see if it all worked.
It did, superbly. I will not be repeating the experience again deliberately.
Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 13:00:49 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
How far down the mast the stay comes depends on where the forestay is fixed to the top of the mast. If the fixing overhangs on a plate then the fixing would be further up the mast. The best way to look at it (and fix it) may be horizontally level with the forestay but about 125mm back on the plate giving a vertical distance between the stays of (as you say) 400mm?
A new sheave and exit would be required for the halyard, led back to the cockpit.
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 14:05:37 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
OK, this is all done and working well (not tested in a storm yet though!). The work was done by and with the advice of Paul Carey, an excellent independent rigger on the south coast.
We took out a rear deck screw from the stem fitting and replaced it with an eye. The inner stay was fixed to the appropriate position in the top front of the mast so the inner stay runs parallel with the forestay. The inner is connected to the new eye with a short strop and Seasure 6mm lever. Another eye then replaced a foreward lower stay bolt for the lever to attach to when not in use (without strop). A new halyard was set into the mast and a new cleat at the bottom. We wanted to put the halyard inside the mast but the conduit for the mast wiring continued higher up the mast than where the halyard would have entered, so it had to remain external.
There are lots of positives to this option including being able to use any size hanked on sail.
Edited by - Castoffs on 26/05/2013 14:08:26
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 30/05/2014 : 16:16:34 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It's taken a while but I thought I out to make the links work.....
That's better
looking4
United Kingdom
26 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 20:25:09
Hi everyone I am in the midst of fitting an inner forestry . Does anyone have any comments advice regarding the sheeting arrangements for the storm jib or any other hanked on sail it seems to me that a second track maybe fixed to a strengthened cabin roof area would allow sheeting nearer the centreline of the boat ???
All comments welcome
Roger
ray24
United Kingdom
51 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 14:02:41 Sunfly's Homepage Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Topic
Hi everyone
I'm in the process of adding an inner forestay from which to fly a storm jib. I've read the hand book article and it had been most helpful, but I have a few questions still unanswered.
1. The handbook article suggests adding a cable reinforcement in the forepeak between deckhead (under the deck terminal) and the stem. What are the panel's views on simply reinforcing the deck, and not including the below deck stay extension? I was considering glassing in an extra batten or two, about 34-40 mm in section, and possibly then bridging two battens with grp to form a sort of box section. clearly it would need a filler block in the centre to stop crushing.
2. What are the opinions on the position of the deck fitting? obviously nearer the stem is stronger as the deck is narrower, and it struck me that immediately in front of the coach roof would be inherently strong. Balanced against this is the optimal position in terms of flying the storm jib...
3. This is to some extent dependent on 2. (or vice-versa) - The Handbook suggests 80 square feet (7.4 m sq) as a size for storm jib (in the list of sails near front). this seems a bit on the big side to me - has anyone any experience of using a storm jib on a sabre, how it performed and what size it is?
thanks in advance...
Toby
Nothing - absolute nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats
http://sunflythesabre.wordpress.com
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 28/11/2012 : 22:19:14 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Toby
Did you get your inner stay installed? I'm thinking of doing the same and wondered how you did it?
Peter
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 14:48:22
Hi Peter,
The best size for a Storm Jib, F7-F8 is 60 sq ft. No more. I have one and have used it in these conditions. Not for the faint hearted! But if you have ‘roller reefing’ how are you going to deploy it?
The biggest problem is ‘From where on the mast are you going to hang it? I had a custom made, seriously strong, stainless fitting riveted to the front and sides of the mast. It cost a fortune as did the rest of the kit!
This inner forestay, stows permanently, via a 3:1 tackle, down to a 'U' bolt on the starboard side-deck. When required, a ‘screw-down tensioner with a Pelican Hook’ is fitted to the stay which is taken to a 'U' bolt mounted through the reinforced foredeck just in front of the hawse-pipe. This can just be seen on Corsairs pictures in the Owners Gallery.
The system works very well, but takes quite a time to set up. It cost a fortune to do it! Give consideration to one of the 'Wrap around the rolled up genoa' systems. Better still, keep out of gale force winds.
Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.
I sailed close hauled for 20 miles in a F8-7 with this sail and a third reef in the main once. I would not do that again, except to save my life!
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 21:12:16 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Paul
Sorry for taking so long to reply but I forgot to subscribe to the topic.
I have a Swift 18 to which I've added a removeable "inner stay" from the back of the stem fitting. This gives just enough clearance for a working jib with the genoa rolled. This means no extra reinforcement as there's no extra load at deck level. I was considering doing this for the Sabre's storm jib. Although it wouldn't be as balanced as set further back on the deck it's far easier and cheaper to fit.
We're planning to cross Biscay so I guess a storm jib is a must just in case.
sabre27
178 Posts
Posted - 20/01/2013 : 20:54:22
Hi Peter,
A Sabre weighs 3.5 tons, all forces are large!
The extra stay. I see few engineering problems using the stem-head fitting to anchor the stay, but the sail will be very close to the rolled genoa. The biggest problem is at the top end. Any ‘stay’ must be very strongly fixed. How and from where on the mast? There is no room at the masthead. The stay needs to be fitted between 300mm and 400 mm down the mast to keep it well clear of the genoa.
The halyard for hoisting the storm sail. Do you have a roller reefing foresail? If so, you cannot use this halyard for the storm-sail, without removing the sail, in strong to gale winds? You cannot use the spinnaker halyard, it will chafe against the rolled Genoa.
That leaves the main halyard, this is the wrong side of the mast. I solved this problem by fitting a 6mm, S/S plate to the top of the mast, ‘offset port 25degrees’ and braced down 300mm onto the mast front. My spinnaker halyard now hangs off this and is used often with a C-Chute. Used once for my storm sail, which was a deliberate ‘shake down’ in a 6-8 gale to see if it all worked.
It did, superbly. I will not be repeating the experience again deliberately.
Paul Howard. S27OA Technical Officer.
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 13:00:49 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
How far down the mast the stay comes depends on where the forestay is fixed to the top of the mast. If the fixing overhangs on a plate then the fixing would be further up the mast. The best way to look at it (and fix it) may be horizontally level with the forestay but about 125mm back on the plate giving a vertical distance between the stays of (as you say) 400mm?
A new sheave and exit would be required for the halyard, led back to the cockpit.
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 14:05:37 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
OK, this is all done and working well (not tested in a storm yet though!). The work was done by and with the advice of Paul Carey, an excellent independent rigger on the south coast.
We took out a rear deck screw from the stem fitting and replaced it with an eye. The inner stay was fixed to the appropriate position in the top front of the mast so the inner stay runs parallel with the forestay. The inner is connected to the new eye with a short strop and Seasure 6mm lever. Another eye then replaced a foreward lower stay bolt for the lever to attach to when not in use (without strop). A new halyard was set into the mast and a new cleat at the bottom. We wanted to put the halyard inside the mast but the conduit for the mast wiring continued higher up the mast than where the halyard would have entered, so it had to remain external.
There are lots of positives to this option including being able to use any size hanked on sail.
Edited by - Castoffs on 26/05/2013 14:08:26
Castoffs
France
30 Posts
Posted - 30/05/2014 : 16:16:34 Castoffs's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It's taken a while but I thought I out to make the links work.....
That's better
looking4
United Kingdom
26 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 20:25:09
Hi everyone I am in the midst of fitting an inner forestry . Does anyone have any comments advice regarding the sheeting arrangements for the storm jib or any other hanked on sail it seems to me that a second track maybe fixed to a strengthened cabin roof area would allow sheeting nearer the centreline of the boat ???
All comments welcome
Roger
ray24